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okay I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the new year
new world we hope with me George
Galloway and me gri one of the saddest
of the features of what has happened to
the great Arab civilization in Syria is
the brain drain with surgeons and
scientists taking to rubber Inflatables
to leave behind their ancient Society
perhaps forever
Dr Ahmed Al kadur is the antidote to
that as a Syrian surgeon he lives and
works in Damascus and Pops over here for
a few weeks at the time to keep his hand
in at the NHS and refueled goes back to
Syria to Brave the bullets and the bombs
I must say doctor in welcoming you back
on board the Sputnik I I cannot hide my
admiration and respect for a man who
could easily be be living in London and
working in the NHS have a safe and good
life but who nonetheless has clung
through all of this Carnage over the
last Almost 5 years now so that out of
the way tell us how things are for you
and your family and the millions of
people who are living in Syria through
this hill first of all uh I would like
to thank you both very much for this
opportun opportunity again I have to say
I'm honored to be on your show again and
uh much of a greeting from all my
colleagues to you to my friends here in
UK uh it's been to be honest with you is
a nightmare to live in this situation in
Syria every day you can hear a bombing
or or suicide bombing uh killing 20 30
people uh eastern part of Damascus
uh on daily basis been hit by 20 30
mortars from suburb of Damascus where
the rebels hold the area and holding too
many
civilians and the Army could not advance
to liberate this area because of a lot
of civilians
sieged in these
areas at the top of that the economy
crisis is getting worse the currency
Syrian currency losing its value before
the crisis when when US dollar was worth
50 Syrian pound now it's about 400 the
acceler did not increase to such extent
so everybody is struggling to to get the
basic for his
family uh so uh is not easy life I have
to say now we're living in dark days I
have to say and what the morale of the
people in all of
this well people they desperate to find
a
solution desperate for this war to end
by anyway this this war claimed more
than
300,000 deaths so far I have to say
million disabled and million
displaced so Syrian people everybody is
desperate for this to end I'd love to
see this Ending by tomorrow
uh I have to say a lot of
people
especially uh targeted minorities they
feel possibly they it's War for their
existence in that area that's why so
Christian minorities
Al they basically got their backs to the
war yeah got back to the war they feel
because their existence is in danger
Syria was the very best place to be a
Christian in the Arab world I myself
have visited many of the churches
Cathedrals monasteries convents and the
pris way in which all these places were
preserved and kept and the honor given
to the Christian people ancient the
first Christians uh was something that
no visitor whatever their view of the
government in Damascus could
deny uh and of course in Iraq the Chris
population has been
decimated uh more than decimated half of
all the Christians in Iraq are no longer
there they're either dead or in headlong
flight yeah uh and yet the Christian
politicians in the west who are always
telling us how Christian they are uh
appear unmoved by that how does that
feel to the Syrian
Christians well I got too many uh
Christian friends they are very worried
and possibly uh um more half of them who
found an opportunity outside Syria they
moved already uh before this war started
uh we were living in harmony all Syrian
people nobody talk about religions or or
or uh about I am Muslim Sunni or ala or
Jews or Christian nobody talk about this
everybody lives in harmony uh but uh as
soon as this problem started and this
teir mentality enter our society and
this tefy uh uh Works killing K napping
targeting these minorities this start to
spark and this fear start to grow these
Christian leaders and they called
themselves Christian leaders I I myself
never considered were acting on behalf
of Christianity real Christians believe
in the prophets peace be upon them they
believed in the prophets and how it get
a bigger piece of them but of course
most of the people in Syria especially
if you say half the Christians have
already fled uh are equally
contemplating what life could possibly
be like under Isis and alqa and the
other extremist
organizations uh I know Syria very well
I know the Syrian people very well they
could never live under this kind of uh
ruler the idea of these black flags
flying in Damascus that really is a
nightmare well I I think one of the goal
of this war is distort the picture of
Islam they wanted to give a picture of
the Islam is equal to uh
extremism uh
murder uh as I said behead beheaded uh
people so that's not real picture of
Islam so one of the goal is to destore
the picture of Islam one of the goal of
this
picture uh a lot of people who cannot
tolerate living under these rules even
Sunni people uh displaced to to
government area they live in harmony so
far in the government control area in
Latakia you can see a lot of raiji uh
moved from Raa alipo and they moved
still in harmony normal life in Latakia
in tus with their brothers uh other ala
white or or or Christian whatever so as
I said to you this this war targeted the
Syrian Society very clever uh they
wanted to destroy uh the Islam
instruction Real Islam instruction to
live in Harmony in peace
so um doctor I'm interested in how a to
understand how a hospital functions
under during a war and under bombardment
under the continuous threat of
terrorism um George spoke about the
brain drain do you in your workplace
experience the the the losses of doctors
and nurses going away and is there what
is the substitute for that are there
perhaps Charities and NOS that Supply
the wh perhaps how does that work
unfortunately we losing uh human
resources on daily basis in my
Hospital uh people wanted to live in
peace first of all they wanted their
basic life so uh unfortunately uh we
losing a lot of uh experts from my place
and other places on daily basis we
managed to recruit
Replacements uh for these uh
people uh a lot of
people uh they don't want to move they
insist to stay they they they staying
we're trying to keep our uh Health
System uh United and and working
efficiently to some extent I cannot
compare it how it was and how it it is
uh at the current time uh as I said uh
health system was very good uh before
this crisis as a result of this crisis
we got a lot of difficulties to do uh
with uh lack of Human Resources uh lack
of uh equipment yeah it's what I sayal
Supply yeah sanctions affected the
health system very badly uh the the
equipment which we could afford to pay
it four years ago now we could not
afford to buy the same equipment we have
to to to find alternative a cheaper one
uh to keep uh working
efficiently now
the
narrative from my side of the political
argument over Syria often stresses the
number of foreign Invaders who are
involved in this dirty war and to be
sure there are tens of thousands of such
foreigners but I'm sorry to say that
there are many syrians involved in this
dirty war also and when it's over and I
do believe that the tide has turned I do
believe this is going to be a better New
Year for you uh than last new year
was uh but you're going to have to come
to terms with the fact that many tens of
thousands of your own country men and
women uh were murdered by their
compatriots um
have you any vision of what a post-war
Syria might look like in that regard
well the uh Syrian government uh pushed
for many reconciliation deals last one I
think if you heard about in
homes uh thousand of these armed people
they accepted just to leave their arms
and uh they and leave and uh some people
would like to uh get integrated back to
our to Home Society
which has been done smoothly I think the
government is pushing for more
reconciliation deals to to to andity as
well uh uh which has been acted uh for
these people to find a door a passway
peaceful Pathway to get integrated back
to society to rebuild this Society again
so that's the only hope uh if if I think
we need to get our so Society back uh
there should uh these people to to
convince us after 5 years of war we
reach nothing we have to to be one
Society one serian Society look for a
future uh look for peace uh rebuild our
society again rebuild our uh a future
for our
children Dr alador you're always welcome
when you're in London to join us here
thank you much again for this
opportunity and thank you I'm very
honored thank you
bye coming up next one of London's
brightest new novelists Sor do stay
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tuned welcome back to Sputnik domestic
violence and violence against women
exist within all communities but within
some it's
undercover such as the shame that is and
indeed should accompany the idea of men
beating women in some immigrant
communities is usually shrouded in
silence Sora dut Has Lifted the veil in
his latest novel The Butterfly room and
I'm glad to say he joins us now sort of
you're a very hot young novelist in the
past you've dealt with horror novels now
you've segued into real life horror
although it's a novel it's only a novel
because people couldn't give you their
names and chapter and verse for a kind
of uh nonfiction work tell us what led
you into this and what you discovered
well thank you very much for the
invitation today Georgian gu 3 um just
to put this in context the World Health
Organization statistic came out a matter
of days ago which stated that during the
lifetime of a woman she will be vict a
victim of domestic violence or sexual
abuse and that person she will be
receiving it from will be a man that
just gives a scale of the gravity of the
problem in this situation and what was
the figure one in three one in three
women during their lifetime will
experience abuse either domestic
violence abuse or sexual abuse so it's
really staggering it really is
staggering what led me to this journey
was initially an account of the true
accounts of women who have suffered
domestic violence and sexual abuse and
this was planned to be a nonfiction book
however such as the taboo around this
subject and the stigmatization that a a
lot of these ladies wish to remain
anonymous so rather than let this good
work go to waste I wanted to use their
accounts and then put it into a novel
form and to give back in a certain way
which is that sales from the book would
go to domestic violence Charities but
interestingly um I was approached
beforehand by a Lobby of me Men actually
who felt that they were being
stigmatized by women and this was
disproportionate they were saying that
look the problem isn't quite as bad as
it's made out whereas men are getting a
bad rap why don't you write for us and
regarding putting our case forward once
I did some very basic research on this I
realized just how bad the problem really
is for women and I didn't want to
blanket that in any shape or form that's
what led me to write this book well if
there are 7 billion people in the world
and half of them are
female uh and a third of those females
will suffer either uh domestic abuse or
or sexual violence or perhaps both
that's a phenomenal number of women and
if they're all almost all at the hands
of men it's a phenomenal number of male
criminals but probably the the men that
are abusing are usually close to them
yeah that's the usually the shocking
Factor behind it yeah absolutely and
what's really troubling about all these
statistics and these accounts is the
number of unreported incidents it's
particular particularly prevalent in
some communities in
some societies and sectors um just think
about those who can't bring their cases
for fear of stigmatization or taboos and
when you look at the totality of this
problem um you've got to think about
those who couldn't bring their cases or
where for example in some circles a
certain type of abuse believe it or not
just doesn't Merit a certain threshold
um if it's psychological for example if
the man is withholding funds and not
allowing the woman to be financially
independent this doesn't in some circles
count as domestic violence or abuse yet
it is just the the preliminary stages of
an actual assault battery or even worse
some will no doubt complacently imagine
that a country like Britain uh does not
have its fair share of these statistics
that it's not as common here as it might
be in countries where The Immigrant
communities originally came from is that
accurate well regarding this issue I
mean uh lots of in Britain the problem
is just as bad um certain austerity cuts
are stripping domestic violence
Charities and organizations of the funds
and means to provide help and assistance
to these women um it's not just
immigrant communities it doesn't matter
whether it's Indian or Pakistani it
could be Eastern European it could be
British women British citizens it runs
the Spectrum and the g the taboo
uh is more prevent in some communities
absolutely I mean the Genesis of the
book was based on accounts in South Asia
and India to start with although it ran
across interviews women everywhere but
you're right in Britain a lot of the
Immigrant communities first generation
second generation third generation the
stigmatization has continued through
generation through class through any
spectrum of society sometimes is a focus
to say oh well the women who are being
abused come from a lower class or uh a
lower income band this isn't true
whatsoever in Britain in fact those who
can be abused or stigmatized and suffer
this sort of abuse can be CEOs they can
be lawyers they can be doctors they
don't have to be spinsters or
Housewives as an anthropologist I also
conducted qualitative research as you've
done yourself and I did mine amongst
poor communities and I know how
difficult it is to enter these
communities so I wonder how it was for
you as a man to get in touch with them
and get the women to talk to you well
the initial stages of my research came
through some legal work through legal
aid um as you your background yeah and
as you may know legal aid cuts of men
that are lot of women who suffer
domestic violence abuse simply cannot
bring cases whereas once they could have
um yes you're correct when when I
approached women initially they were
skeptical to say the least about why a
man would be wanting to interview them
and that I would have certain
preconceptions but once it it was clear
where I was going with this book um the
the the response has been phenomenal um
I believe that as a man it's part of my
battle and struggle as well with regards
to gender inequality um we see very
often How brave women um are giving
mediums and platforms to speak and Men
you know they clap along and they
provide assurances and promises but they
aren't putting action where words are
being placed um take for example India
just as a simple example um it's 3 years
almost to the day in a sense where a
horrible rape occurred in Delhi a lot of
promises were made a lot of assurances
by men no less of funds which would be
released money that would be raised and
they just haven't been followed through
um so to just to digress slightly from
that um I can understand the skepticism
towards men and what their motives are
but with me I simply wanted to provide a
voice and I wanted to be one of the few
men unfortunately minority who does
speak about this and does debate about
this and does want to give a voice to
the voiceless and the double standards
of course are Brazen uh there's a
notorious case right now in Saudi Arabia
oh yes uh where a s Lankan woman and a
Sri Lankan man working in Saudi Arabia
have been convicted of extra marital
sexual
relations the man is to be lashed and
the woman is to be be stoned to death uh
this kind of brazen double standards uh
would not be permitted here but there
are plenty of double standards of a
lesser standard and Common Place men
don't feel this pain in the way that
women
do absolutely true I mean the
stigmatization that comes across simply
by a woman raising their concerns is
horrifying
when a woman speaks out about this for
some reason she's vilified she's not
seen as an independent person voicing
concern rather a rabble Rouser a
troublemaker someone who's trying to
make an issue where there isn't one
unfortunately their issues are prevalent
they are do need to be discussed but yes
there is a double standard because if a
woman particularly in countries such as
India countries such as Saudi Arabia or
elsewhere raise their voices they are
ostracized they their voices are pushed
to the side
and try and attempted to be as made as
minuscule as possible why is this we
have to get Beyond this we're in 2016
now and we're looking at a point where
we must debate these things out in the
open and it can't be on um Independent
Women's day I I have I have take a bit
of umage with the day international
women's day um this is a day where
everyone collates and a lot of media
Echo Chambers talk about how this is so
important and lots of money is raised
and the day after the issue is forgotten
well of course you are yourself from
South Asian background Indian
background um and uh there are millions
of people in Britain today from that
Community half of them are men uh what's
their attitude to your novel The
Butterfly room well the men themselves
well again they feel that whilst this is
an issue that must be discussed you
can't say too much which is kind of you
know it's ridiculous in itself it's it's
almost as if a certain level of
criticism is permitted but if you go
beyond that and if you try to dig deeper
into the reasons and the rationale they
don't want to hear that whilst we are
moving into Generations that do want to
hear more about these problems and
issues and do something about it
unfortunately certain prejudices and
discriminatory attitudes are passed on
from generation to generation people
seeing their father beating their mother
are far more likely to be their own
wives when they have one yeah um this is
a pattern that unfortunately is bearing
to be true um it's it's the sins of the
father being passed along and is if it's
not physical it comes across in another
way like I said um it could be for
example confiscating the credit card
confiscating any financial means of
Independence um where one is a bread
winner who earns a considerable amount
in the city for example and and insists
that the woman remains at home while she
does remain at home she has no
independence of herself and the argument
is always brought back that well I'm the
F owner I'm the bread winner here listen
to me and listen to what you say and
listen to what I say and if you were to
raise your voice think about what others
will think of you within the family this
is a very particular problem within
South Asian communities and immigrant
communities it's a concern about what
others will think perceive what they
perceive and they it's a fascinating
novel The Butterfly room it's being
published not just in Britain but
internationally how's it doing it's
doing very well it's come to the
attention of um MPS figureheads and
Charities um Amnesty International UK
for example picked up on the book um
several um um Leaders with Jeremy Corbin
even number 10 believe it or not has a
copy of the book um he doing very well
is going to be published um in India
present which has been a bit of a
difficult uphill struggle actually when
it shouldn't have been um and it's of
the taboo just because of the taboo just
because of the criticism again you're
allowed to say a bit but don't say too
much um and importantly I've I've bonded
with several Charities major Charities
who have taken part um women's Aid
refuge and one in particular called the
Sharon project who's a who's a
relatively new organization helping
women in this country in the United
Kingdom and the praise has been
unanimous so far so I'm very thankful
for that well excellent It's a first
class read and a real eye opener s d
thank you for joining us alas that means
on this new year that's the end of of
the show but please stay in touch with
us through Twitter at rtor Sputnik or on
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today it's
goodbye from me gri and from me George
Galloway it's been marvelous Happy New
Year
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